Handling Large Carpet Rolls

Discussion in 'Floorcovering Installation & Maintenance Tips' started by Mike Antonetti, Jun 29, 2014.

  1. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    Maybe Gundlach catalog, I think they spell it Karpet Krane.
     
  2. Travis brown

    Travis brown Pro Member

    The trick to the cinnamon roll is the start. The first few small as possible folds as you start to role the tube. That creates a tension within the roll and as long as it stays tight it works good. It takes a little practice like any other skill. Kind of like rolling a stiff piece of vinyl. To do it right and keep tight is not simple. It wants to loosen and loose its tension. The cinnamon roll is the same way but the further it gets rolled the easier it gets and it holds its own tension like the vinyl. We recently made the biggest yet. Over 178' long but just over half of it was cut down to 6' wide. And another a little smaller which was the other half of the previous cut formed/L'ed out. That second one was 145 or so. I've done this successfully with vinyl also but it has to be rolled face out if paperback. I don't think I would attempt if cold outside with the vinyl especially.

    I made my share of sloppy cinnamon rolls at first. First one ever was 15' wide carpet. My helper at the time and me tried to roll it up width ways because when attempting to break it in the middle it would just break everywhere like a wet noodle. A several hundred pound noodle. we were tired,hot and tried everything else and didn't know any better It was terrible and barely worked and that one room took us all day long but it kind of worked. It was better than going back to the store with tail between legs. And worked well enough for me to try again anyway.

    Furniture sliders,folding handtruck and cinnamon rolls. The three best and cheapest tools ever. And burritos but that's a whole other thing.

    Luckily these did not have steps to climb but did drop some really long hallways and adjoining offices with no seams and no damaged paint. Stubborn wrinkles for sure but I've done this hundreds of times by now. Wether stretch or glue I have yet to have a problem
     

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  3. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    What is going on there with this Cinnamn roll deal? You fold it longways, first in half, then flip that section in half again? Then tightly roll it up? When Hanover said I didn't think of long lengths, just 20 fters for ease of getting up stairs.

    So this intense folding doesn't damage/distort/delaminate carpet? That was glue down in pic?
     
  4. Travis brown

    Travis brown Pro Member

    Yes glue down at social services building. Never had any more damage than just bending the roll in the middle. The first few folds when starting to roll get creased bad just like the middle does when bending in half. Like you would do to move around a tight corner or up an elevator.

    Making cinnamon rolls from scratch

    1. Unrole carpet
    2.fold one length side over itself twice the width of your desired finished product. If you can fit a 2'8" wide pastry safely into the job then that fold would be about 5'. The wider they are the better but not good when it has to be re re roled because it's to wide for the doorway.
    3.fold that length over to meet the selvage edge from previous fold
    4.repeat. 5. Make sure when roled the flap/side edge of carpet is on bottom and hopefully close to the side for a tighter easier to manage roll
    6.stand on end of carpet and help the guy helping you roll it up. Standing on the roll while rolling is important helping the carpet to flatten while being rolled
    7. Use caution while rolling to keep it straight and not becoming 4'wide
    8.once the carpet is where it needs to be unrole it
    9. Fold back a couple of corners diagonally if possible to help relax the the wrinkles by bending them differently. Kind of erasing its wrinkled memory
    It works on sofbac to but falls apart when rolling
    but I've made it work by wrapping with a couple ratchet straps

    When on the job where heavy equipment is available the cinomman roll rides on forks nicely too
     
  5. kwfloors

    kwfloors Fuzz on the brain Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    It must be nice to be warm where you are to do that. Try doing that in 45 degree temp with a carpet that is stiff anyway. Not going to happen up here.
     
  6. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    So I copy and printed that recipe to my email, a few weeks ago we went to Cinnabon at a mall an hour and change away, first time, also Red Robin first time. So now I want Cinnamon Rolls.

    Never thought about rolling carpet up like that, and no one really cared about how we were getting carpet to the upper floors. If faced with those issues(kinda gettin old for that bs) that trick is coming out of the bag, thanks.
     
  7. Travis brown

    Travis brown Pro Member

    No doubt Montana is a whole nother animal but these pictures were taken this just past February. I don't remember the temp but I'm sure it was 45 degrees at best. Here's a winter picture from 2014 here
     

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  8. kwfloors

    kwfloors Fuzz on the brain Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    I'm get furniture movers to pack things in anymore. This lodge I'm doing they are going to be packing up, to the 3rd floor, around 29 cuts of 15' carpet this week. It gives those young guys a workout.
     
  9. Nate Hall

    Nate Hall Types With Elbows Senior Member Published

    I had a restretch on a large room. 70 foot drops of axminister. You could easily see all the wrinkles down the middle of each drop from the elevator ride up to the 32nd floor. :( you can flatten the carpet after severe folding but the wrinkles are permanent. Like crumpling a piece of paper. You can un-crumple it and get it flat again but it has wrinkles. That ax had been down for three years and when it loosened up it wrinkled right down the middle of each drop.
     
  10. Travis brown

    Travis brown Pro Member

    Is their a method of getting carpet up an elevator without bending it. 95% at least of every restretch I've ever done or seen is wrinkled down the length. If you don't like my way keep up the hard way. It worked for me until finding a better way.
     
  11. Nate Hall

    Nate Hall Types With Elbows Senior Member Published

    I'm sorry if you misunderstood my meaning. I could have been more clear. It's not a bad method or a good method. Many times its the only method
    In a perfect world the huge rolls of carpet needed would already be on site before the walls and Windows are in the way. A crane can be used and carpet swung in through a window but that is costly and time consuming.
    I have had to stand up rolls on a freight elevator and some elevators have a trap in the ceiling that can be removed so as to accommodate large rolls standing on end.
    I was merely pointing out the downside of crumpling the carpet. Sometimes you have to break an egg to get an omelet.
    There is also a time limit to wrinkles in carpet. The rule of thumb is not to exceed 4 hours when folding carpet. Not that it's the end of the world but I try to keep the "fold time" to a minimum.
     
  12. JPfloor

    JPfloor Pro Member

    When we have large rolls that need to be bent into elevators we "loose roll" them by placing empty 5 gallon buckets at each end of the roll before rolling, then slide the bucket out after it's rolled up. The looser you roll it, the less severe the wrinkles will be when you open it. As already mentioned, keep it bent for as short a time as possible, (less than an hour is my rule) and of course the warmer the better...:cool:

    I've snaked more than my share of broadloom into narrow hallways but as for a 178' footer? I'd be on the phone asking where they'd like the cross seam to go......:cool:
     
  13. JPfloor

    JPfloor Pro Member

    I agree...

    A room that size should have been glued, or if padding was a must then double stick.... If I was asked to stretch in a room that size I would have to insist they find a way to deliver it without bending it.
     
  14. Nate Hall

    Nate Hall Types With Elbows Senior Member Published

    I didn't do the original installation but I would have added extra cross seams and charged extra to do them!
     
  15. Travis brown

    Travis brown Pro Member

    I personally would rather have a bubble repair than a cross seam repair. And will go so far in someone's home to purposely mess up a bedroom cut with an L shaped corner seam so that I can eliminate a end seam some ware else like a hallway. So I put an uneccesary head seam under a bed but got rid of it where it matters. The heavy traffic area.
     
  16. petomane

    petomane Pro Member

    Hi Travis, could you elaborate a little on this technique? I'm not getting any younger, so any tips on lugging carpet, especially to the second floor, would be greatly appreciated! I worked with a guy once who buggy lugged a really heavy cut on his back to the upstairs bedroom, asking me only to keep the carpet centered while he played mule!! Last I heard he retired and not too long after had heart surgery!! Yea he's a hero, and luckily still alive!
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2016
  17. Mike Sliwinski

    Mike Sliwinski The Doctor Is In Senior Member


    Nice Job Travis ! and thanks for sharing that detailed
    rolling method and photos, that sized cinnamon roll could feed an army :p and you just never know when it might come in handy. Was that a two man delivery and spread ?

    Personally I hate working out wrinkles in glue down installations and would exhaust all options before breaking carpet in half or the cinnamon roll method, especially with a none friendly backings. Was that action back ?.............However I am impressed with that level of creativity and determination to provide great service and over one hundred times probably makes you the master of the cinnamon roll delivery and spread method :yesss: :D


    Mike
     
  18. Travis brown

    Travis brown Pro Member

    I have considered glueing half the hall lengthwise before unrolling the cinnamon roll but positioning it correctly to start with would not be easy. Especially with a hundred plus ft. Having glued only half leaves room to stand to the side of the roll and readjust as necessary while Unrolling through the glue.
    In the middle of righting that gave me an idea though. Glue half the hall except the first 8 or 10 ft. Leaving a dry spot in the beginning for positioning the carpet nicely against the side.
    The store I did this one for said the carpet was unitary but it definitely had a secondary backing. I don't know what the backing was called looked like action back to me but uni means 1 and there were 2 layers of backing. I have also seen laminate with a thin layer of wood or cork on top sold as engineered so I have no idea. Maybe it is unitary.

    I'm not making fresh rolls daily. Only in certain circumstances is it worth the effort. I'm going to say 30' before I start considering the roll. With tight stairwells and landings it's a great idea for a monster cut of carpet. A few times I made the roll of site and use a deadman as a ramp to roll in and out of the van.

    This is my dad making nice with a cinnoman roll after shaking his head watching my helper and I make the roll downstairs on the driveway. He changed his mind after watching us roll it up the steps. 15' / 38' I think. Popcorn Berber if you know what I mean by that. Big knots and heavy but hard not to run a row free hand from the back.
     

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  19. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    Kinda like Rugman doing his own thing. Some guys get methods to work for them, know when to use those methods and their limitations.

    Like a saying goes, know enough to be dangerous, but not fully understanding the complexities or contraindications to avoid disaster.
     
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