Discussion in 'Carpet Q&A' started by Chris Sheafer, Jul 29, 2008.

  1. Chris Sheafer

    Chris Sheafer Published

    I have noticed on this forum that when talking about carpet wrinkles, some installers bring up the gulley.
    I am a stickler when it comes to the gulley, but purely for the sake of having a good finished edge that there won't be problems with.
    What does the gulley have to do with the streach?
  2. David Hunt

    David Hunt Charter Member Senior Member Published

    Hot diggity dog, man do I like he way you think!

    EXCELLENT question.

  3. tony lamar

    tony lamar Charter Member

    I consider the gully in terms of the finished look as well, but, when the strip is left waaaaay out there, like some peckerwoods will do, it can be enough to let some carpets come loose and potentially off the pins thereby causing the wrinkle issue. I like to keep it as tight as possible without making it way hard to tuck, and even hard to tuck at tile or hardwood edges.
  4. Lo Down

    Lo Down Old as dirt member Charter Member Senior Member

    Good minds think alike. Yours is exceptional Tony. :D
  5. Peter Kodner

    Peter Kodner Inspector Floors Charter Member Senior Member

    Here the gully (and lack of) in one I looked at 2 weeks ago. Except where the installer ran the strip to thew wall, gullies were 1/2 inch or greater.

    anyone care to guess what the claim was for?

    Attached Files:

  6. tony lamar

    tony lamar Charter Member

  7. Mark in Tulsa

    Mark in Tulsa Pro Member

    The gully can effect wrinkles. If it is to short then it is really easy to tuck in to much carpet and then have it pop off the strip. Especially if you hack away with the wrong adjusted trimmer. If the gully is to big, then there isn't a tight enough fit sometimes to make sure the carpet doesn't come out.

    Now I've had to put strip 4 inches away before because the stem wall was so tore up, and not even gluing the strip would work. So it can be done and be wrinkle free if the gully is wrong, but it increases the chance of having a problem down the road.
  8. David Hunt

    David Hunt Charter Member Senior Member Published

    OK, then why are the pins on tack strip set at an angle? Part two of the same question; why is the wall side of the wood strip cut at an angle and not straight?

  9. rusty baker

    rusty baker Well-Known Member

    The pins are at an angle, so when you release your stretch, the carpet will pull back and hook on them. The strip is angled to allow better tucking into the gully and a more pleasing look. The most important part of the gully size is the look after the carpet is tucked in.
  10. SAA

    SAA Charter Member

    Gully is twofold, to protect the carpet edge and to hold the stretch. The Standards say it should not exceed 3/8 of an inch, the general rule of thumb is to be slightly less than the thickness of the carpet but not to exceed 3/8 of an inch.

    When a carpet is tucked in tight, it helps to resist the flexing and movement that can work it off of the pins and let the carpet become loose.

  11. Chris Sheafer

    Chris Sheafer Published

    So, the fact of the matter is..... and from what I am hearing you guys saying is....
    It has NOTHING to do with the gully and more to do with rather or not you are trimming it right... something I learned my first day.

    I had to change out the strip in a 300 yd house just last week....
    The gully was all over the place but mostly to close to the base boards....
    Except for the monster rock fireplace where they just ran it straight across and about an inch away... Could not figure out why they would have it so close to the walls all over but clear away from fire place.
    I of course followed the conture of the rock and treated it just as I did going to ceramic and made the gully pretty tight...

    That being said, it would have had zero bearing on my stretching, or the fact that jobs I do will last the life of the carpet under normal wear. If I were to use exsisting tack strip that was not how I like it, I trim accordingly. We all know that for the best looking finish, the gulley depends on the thickness of the carpet, but it is not very profitable to change out the tack strip on every job, but sometimes you just have to.
    Most of the time, you can make it work if you learning anything your first week on the job.

    What gets me the most about gulley's are steps...
    I replace more tack strip on steps then anywhere because it seems to me that most carpet installers (alleged) don't have a clue how to put tack strip on a step.

    All that being said, I still say that the gully has nothing to do with a carpet wrinkling.
  12. Darren Ramey

    Darren Ramey Charter Member

    I agree that the gulley doesn't have much if anything to do with wrinkling. It is easy to jump to that conclusion though. If an installer doesn't know any better than to leave the strip an inch from the wall, he probably isn't a master of the power stretch either.

    There is a guy in town here that is infamous for just nailing strip down where ever it happens to land. If you see strip touching the base on one side and two or more inches out on the other you know Wayne has been there. He might as well of signed it.
  13. rusty baker

    rusty baker Well-Known Member

    I had a retailer call me and ask me to look at a job that a drive-by installer did for him. The customer complained that the seam hurt their feet to walk on and didn't want any of the retailer's installers to come back. The room fill was to be in one piece. The "installer" had put tackstrip back-to-back in the middle of the seam. In fact, he didn't seam the carpet together.He rubbed it down, stapled it and kicked away from the "seam."
  14. Mark in Tulsa

    Mark in Tulsa Pro Member

    Aerodynamics. :cool:
  15. Demonseed

    Demonseed Pro Member

    Once in a while with fire places and rock walls, we would keep the tack strip back and use z bar, it really depends on the specific situation. Of course this is a semantic argument: is it the gully, is it over tucking, is it a lack of stretch?

    You would replace the tack strip and many others here would, yet if a carpet had wrinkles or buckles and you saw the tack strip was against the wall, what would you conclude? It is a circular argument..Yes?

    If you have to replace the tackstrip on a 300 yard job, you are basically conceding the gully is a 'stretch' issue, otherwise you would have made the job work.
  16. Floorguy

    Floorguy The Living Dead Charter Member Senior Member

    In my younger days before CFI and even knowing there was a prefect gully size and doing relays we never replaced the tackstrip... Never! Well unless it was damaged. MY depth gauge is my index finger, squeezed by the strip and the baseboard, which yields about 3/8".

    Back to the relays... I never had any tufted carpet come loose from a pole stretch. Not even with tackstrip being way back. Not even with the old 9/16" and the infamous 5/8" thick cushions, of the late 80's-early 90's. I didn't do wovens at all.

    If it is stretched tight as it can, the tension is not going to let it pull off the slanted pins, Period. If you ride a knee kicker, good luck!!!!

    The tackstrip placement for me, is just for a crisp, clean, non-picture framed installation. My pole stretcher keeps it tight enough not to worry.
  17. kwfloors

    kwfloors Fuzz on the brain Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    Ditto to that...
  18. Chris Sheafer

    Chris Sheafer Published

    No, I replaced the tack strip because the goods I was installing was very expensive and the gulley that was there would not work to provide a good finished look. Yes, I could have made it work, but it would not have looked as nice.
  19. Elmer Fudd

    Elmer Fudd Administwative Asst. Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    The tack strip and the gully have become an issue, paricularly with the SoftBac type of material. They don't grab the pins like AB does and with a softer, thicker pad will walk up and down and tend to come loose rom the pins. A nice tight tuck at the gully will help to prevent this.

    Like it has been said here before, these are the standards put out by the industry, you don't have to follow them if you don't want too. BUT if it affects the installation down the road, be prepared to defend yourself as to why you did not follow the standards.

    This is just my opinion.;)

    Incoming, grab your helmet and hit the deck!!:eek::help:
  20. tony lamar

    tony lamar Charter Member

    Soft bac was one I was thinking of in particular. It seems to almost want to come off the strip.

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