Grant and Silicone

Discussion in 'Vinyl & Rubber Flooring Sales and Installations' started by Jon Scanlan, Nov 27, 2017.

  1. Jon Scanlan

    Jon Scanlan That Kiwi Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    Grant and any others are you finding that silicone is being asked for around vinyl jobs, commercial and domestic, these days?
    I haven't been asked and I do not want to know, but the other layer is getting asked
    I can not see the point, and it looks terrible if the vinyl is cut in tight. Have always been told one has to leave a gap against the wall for the silicone to work plus will it stick to these new vinyl surfaces?
    As I only do the smaller type domestic jobs nowdays replacing old vinyl in houses I find that at most times the edges of the old vinyl is still well stuck not like the old days with the asbestos backed vinyl all curling around the edges
  2. Chris 45

    Chris 45 Director of P.R. on some deserted island. I Support TFP

    Is it asked for? Not that I’ve seen or heard of yet but if I cut tight to something and it isn’t getting base or 1/4 round, I usually put a bead of clear just to be thorough.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. Incognito

    Incognito No more Mr. Nice Guy! I Support TFP Senior Member

    Clear silicone, properly (clean!) applied will not ugly out over time. If it's not called for by the manufacturer I would not consider it for routine installs. Silicone is basically required in commercial against cuts to drains, clean outs, thresholds and anywhere wash water could penetrate. Nearly everything is either coved or receives rubber/vinyl base leaving only the door jambs exposed. A lot of sloppy installers routinely "caulk" the jambs. It certainly looks better if you know how to use a knife an just make clean cuts that dont need caulking.

    I avoid using the colored silicone because it will ugly out over time------discolor, primarily darken/blacken. But when some of the crap you are expected to scribe fit it is sloppy/irregular/sketchy you can make that look neater with a colored caulk or better still siliconized caulk.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. kwfloors

    kwfloors Fuzz on the brain Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    If you can, on the colored caulk, put clear over it. Keeps it nice. I see a lot of bad caulking here, mostly too big.
    • Informative Informative x 1
  5. Be cautious with it. Depending on the wear layer of the vinyl - in particular the commercial no-wax floors - it doesn't stick very well. Many times you can rub it off with your finger. You might need to lightly rough the edge where you want it to stick with some sandpaper to get it to grab. The aluminum oxides and ceramic bead additives in those finishes make it like trying to stick to Teflon.

    I also had some idiot who cut his sheet vinyl too short and there were irregular gaps along the toe of the cove base where you could see the subfloor. He tried to use colored silicone to "fill in" the spots and it didn't stick to the subfloor or the adhesive. I will say he did a good job matching the color. Had it stayed in place he might have got away with it.
    The first maintenance washed about half of it out and he called me to complain. :oops::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

    Yeah, like that's my floors fault!!

    He actually tried to tell me that the vinyl had shrunk away from the wall and he tried to "...fix it with the caulk". When I pointed out that the glue in those gaps still showed full trowel ridges that never had anything in it and if the vinyl had shrunk this wouldn't be the case, the story became "well CFR, you've known me a long time. I was trying to cover for my helper he did it." emmm hmmm, sure!!!

    I'll tell you a secret - I'm more liable to help you if you're just honest with me the first time and tell me you screwed up. We all do it. Just accept what you did and ask for help. Don't make me prove it to you so I have to feel like an ass too! :eek:;). Elmer, can I get an Amen????
    • Like Like x 3
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Funny Funny x 1
  6. Chris 45

    Chris 45 Director of P.R. on some deserted island. I Support TFP

    Surprised he didn’t try to shim out the toe on the cove base.
  7. He did. He did a very poor job of that as well. He took rolled up scribing paper. Rolled it up like a small doobie and shoved it up under the cove base to try and prop out the toe. I also pointed this out when he tried to tell me the vinyl had shrunk. I could see lumps behind the base everywhere. If it was truly the vinyl shrinking they would have stopped as soon as they started hanging the base and saw the problem in the first room. They did 12 patient rooms this way.

    Of course this same installer was installing 6' wide inlaid using a speed square as the only straight edge on the job. Then he hand grooved the long seams with a pull groover like you'd use for doing cove work but on the 20' flat seams. The seam varied so much in width and depth it looked like a snake.

    I think I've got some pictures somewhere. If I can find them I'll post them.
  8. Sorry Jon, I didn't mean to hijack the thread. :nooo:
  9. Jim McClain

    Jim McClain Owner/Founder Administrator

    I prob'ly should be shocked that you even know that term :eek: but my minds autocorrect kicked in and wanted to point out that "small doobie" would be like used, or a "roach." What I think you meant was "pinner." ;)
    • Funny Funny x 1
  10. Nope - my parents were hippies. I grew up with a 6' pot plant in the front window of our house. To this day I have never smoked, but I would say I have had a ton of really good contact buzzes over my life. I still occasionally get one now and then when one of the more "interesting" installers roll into the office and you can just about see a vapor trail from the smell.

    Trust me, there's more than corn that grows in Indiana! :);)

    The guy I was speaking about rolled up the scribing paper just like really tight little joints and stuck it behind the cove base to shim it out.
  11. Chris 45

    Chris 45 Director of P.R. on some deserted island. I Support TFP

    You guys crack me up. I still have a bottle of cologne in my van from the west coast;)
  12. Mark Brown

    Mark Brown On The Surface Flooring I Support TFP

    No miss, I swear we smelled like axe deodorant BEFORE lunch too.....
    • Funny Funny x 2
  13. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    Silicone, I’m not fond of as a caulk when it’s not tucked between two objects, say two pieces of granite. Some reason the edge doesn’t seem to hold long term and can be pulled away. My cargo trailer has silicone on it, granted it’s 14 years old but I’ve been peeling it away for a couple weeks when I notice it, then probably urethane or a butyl due to it being aluminum will go back in place.

    I like siliconized latex, the 25,40,50? Year stuff, not the 5 year cheap stuff, some of it shrinks. Also stuff/dirt sticks to silicone, at least caulk.
  14. kwfloors

    kwfloors Fuzz on the brain Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    If you want indestructible, Lexan.
  15. Here are some pictures from the job I was talking about:

    Attached Files:

  16. Mark Brown

    Mark Brown On The Surface Flooring I Support TFP

    WTF is wrong with that man??
    You know..... we tried out best right?
  17. Chris 45

    Chris 45 Director of P.R. on some deserted island. I Support TFP

    Ouch! Not sure if there are words for that.
  18. Graeme

    Graeme Pro Member

    Must have been pretty windy when he was installing that...
    • Funny Funny x 1

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