Ever See This? First Time For Me.

Discussion in 'Commercial Flooring Sales & Installation' started by Incognito, Apr 25, 2017.

  1. Incognito

    Incognito No more Mr. Nice Guy! I Support TFP Senior Member

    Three restrooms in a commercial (government) office building in Pasadena. Very old building by California standards. That means ASBESTOS and God only knows what else.

    Anyways, the smallest restroom had Armstrong Corlon over 9x9 asbestos tile. The two larger restrooms had the 1"x1" mosaic (ceramic) tile with some odd epoxy covering atop that-----then a skim coat with white patch, OBVIOUSLY primed and mixed with latex liquid additive and then Armstong Corlon on top of that.

    My job was to demo, prep and install Mannington 12' sheet vinyl with their wonderful V-82 acrylic adhesive. I'm not going to throw that shit directly into the dumpster. It will just go back to the shop where EVENTUALLY I can only hope it winds up in the dumpster. It's F'n garbage in my opinion. G. A. R. B. A. G. E.

    GARBAGE.

    You're supposed to use the P82 primer on nonporous substrates. Talked to my boss and we agreed the regular P51 would be fine. I put 2 heavy coats of FF overtop all three rooms. Tomorrow we install.
     

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  2. Incognito

    Incognito No more Mr. Nice Guy! I Support TFP Senior Member

    I forgot to mention. There was S-200 on all the seams of the Corlon. So that means to me NO ASBESTOS in the backing/vinyl.

    Am I correct to assume this?

    They started with the epoxy glue on the seams AFTER they took the asbestos out of the backing..........BECAUSE without the asbestos the vinyl would shrink, curl and the seams would FAIL miserably.

    C'mon Oldtimers, I'm depending on you for confirmation.
     
  3. seamsealer

    seamsealer Pro Member

    Early on, 1974 when I started, Armstong had an asbestos backing, just 2%, it was called Hydracord, it was very flexible. I think they had s200 epoxy for the seams back then too. Looks like they skim coated the mosaic tile and went over.
    Bye the way, I also had a fan like that, very nice, thanks for the memory.
     
  4. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    Wonder if the mosaics were installed in a mud bed, sometimes those bastard are welded directly to slab, F n old timers could bond some tile. Even 4" wall tile on the floor (70's) is insanely bonded.
     
  5. Incognito

    Incognito No more Mr. Nice Guy! I Support TFP Senior Member

    *************************

    uh oh!
     
  6. Jon Scanlan

    Jon Scanlan That Kiwi Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    All the Corlon we had here was asbestos backed
    The Hydracord backing was on Congoleum products (I think)
     
  7. seamsealer

    seamsealer Pro Member

    Beginning in 1980 asbestos was banned from manufacture in floor backings. What ever stock the manufacturers had, could still be sold, so some installs after 1980 could still have asbestos in the backing. They went to fiberglass in the backing and it got much more difficult to do, just was not as flexible.
    I'm trying to find some information about the s-200 and when it was made for seams. I started in 1974 and I think the guy I learned from had done some Solarian and used s-200 on the seams. I remember them recommending it and then said no, but then recommending it at a later date.
     
  8. seamsealer

    seamsealer Pro Member

    I think most of the manufacturers bought the Congoleum backing for their floors because it was the most flexible and stable to meet the requirements of no asbestos in the backings.
     
  9. Good call on the V-82, worse adhesive we have in the line. I'm not even sure why we keep it since V-88 came out. V-88 (VERY similar to Taylor 2091 - wink, wink, nudge, nudge) or XpressStep Spray (VERY similar to SprayLock) adhesive are way better adhesives. I'd go with the V-88 in that application. It's pretty much water proof once it cures, so if they ever have a flood you're covered. You can use it like a traditional adhesive or let it go pressure sensitive. If you let it go PS you've got about a 3 hour window then it will hard set. I have a ton of installations around showers and wet areas in nursing homes - absolutely no issues.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. eaadams

    eaadams Sport Floor Pro

    If I remember right you can usually tell some of those asbestos products by the pattern somewhere online there is a website that has the different patterns and espestice I know I've used it for some school districts where we found that crap in bathrooms

    Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
     
  11. Incognito

    Incognito No more Mr. Nice Guy! I Support TFP Senior Member

    Gerflor's Gerfix adehsive is what my buddy (warehouse guy/truck driver) brought out in addition to the V-82. He knows how I roll.

    The product was Mannington Paradigm Flow Foundation
    12' goods.
    That's just a stupid idea-------12' commercial vinyl. But the job came out nice. Still had a couple hours of prep in the morning. 43 s/y heat welded and base. Out the door at 2PM.

    Drain cover plates were loose. The plumber was there on site. He said just set it there, cut around it and.................HA!
    Nothing more I can do. There weren't even screws or screw holes to speak of. Not my problem.
     

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  12. eaadams

    eaadams Sport Floor Pro

    The gerfix was so much better than the new gerfix plus.

    Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
     
  13. Incognito

    Incognito No more Mr. Nice Guy! I Support TFP Senior Member

    This pail was a couple years old but never opened and good as new. I never noticed the new "plus" Gerfix. What's the difference?

    Whatever it was today was very nice to work with. Easy money.

    We had problems with the s200 in Connecticut and even in California when the heat wasn't on. Prior to changing the composition of the backing the adhesive was plenty strong enough to hold down the seams and it was plenty tacky.............plenty long enough so you could slam the goods in even in marginal conditions and it could be re-rolled, GENTLY torched down into the glue to flush out the seams well enough. With the epoxy you really needed to know how to handle the installation and you needed decent HVAC-----HEAT.

    Yeah, we learned that the hard way.
     
  14. kwfloors

    kwfloors Fuzz on the brain Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    I think s200 was found in the 50's and found its use years later. Ray Thompson who was an Armstrong install master of all told us that s200 is an incredible adhesive if done right. Had a class with him in 82 for 2 weeks on installing Armstrong.
     
  15. Erica

    Erica Pro Member


    Are the last (3) photos what you primed and skimmed over?
     
  16. Steve Olson

    Steve Olson Hardwood/Laminate Guru Charter Member Senior Member

    When I first started installing, this guy name Woody was the Armstrong guy, then, Gordon took over. I went to an Armstrong installation class in Oakland, like 1979ish, and Ray Thompson was with Gordie, and would be taking over...We had S-200 back then, but i don't remember if it was new or we just didn't install enough of that product to use it very often. I loved that stuff, used it for as long as my stash lasted, after it went by the way side. BTW, that job of your looks like nearly every job I do up in our downtown lol. The job I finished today, is 1 of 2 places in Cali, where you can get a drink , and buy a gun. There was a cut out in the back section, they had to install a janitor's sink. Under the floor I installed over, were 2 other layers of old T&G flooring, both installed over furring strips. Pretty cool. I went under the old building to take a look see. The back section of the job, was an add on to the old original structure. The outer wall of the original, was brick, but, in several spots, they had used field stones, and rbricked around. Don't know if it this was a repair, ot just the realization that they were running out of bricks. The "new" addition foundation wall, was all of stone, pretty cool.
     
  17. Incognito

    Incognito No more Mr. Nice Guy! I Support TFP Senior Member

    *****************************
    Yeah, if I recall correctly I painted/smeared some p51, let it dry and then two heavy coats of Feather Finish. Not sure that's what I did over the asbestos tiles but pretty sure that's how I remember doing the mosaic with the epoxy coating.

    I hate putting any kind of resilient flooring in rest rooms. I think they should all be ceramic, terrazzo or just sealed/polished concrete.
     
  18. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    No ceramic, no Terrazzo.

    Just epoxy, methyl methacrylate, same with kitchens, no concave joints for water to breed bacteria, just a nice gentle slope to drains for a washdown.
     
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