DuPont SmartStrand Vs. Shaw Tuftex

Discussion in 'Carpet Q&A' started by eyal8r, Nov 18, 2008.

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  1. eyal8r

    eyal8r Active Member

    ha! In this market, and working in the Real Estate market here in AZ- trust me, I've considered going and getting a job at HD! No, I'm not an employee- and have been saying all along it's not my intentions to hire them. I hired them for a garage door opener once, and then again on a kitchen countertop in a flip property (yes, I know, I'm the devil and it's my fault for the economic crisis we're in now- but that's in the past). Both were HORRIBLE experiences, and I have ZERO desire to hire them again. HOWEVER, if it was going to save me $500- you bet I would. But that's why I've been price shopping- to find someone to MATCH HD's Price. To me, it's a win-win. The Carpet Installer makes more money than if HD hired them, and I don't have to go thru HD for the work- I go direct to the source. I think you need to focus back on what I've been asking all along- carpet quality of these two carpets. Or, if you're going to attack me and accuse me of things you have no clue about, then I'm not looking for your input anyways, and welcome you to leave the thread. I just want answers about the carpet quality and how to find good installers- hence, the topic of the thread.
  2. I would get what my wife wanted. thats how I pick out flooring and everything else she comes in the store I ask her what do you want she says that one. The last floor was just flooring somebody returned that ended up in my place.

    HD installers can vary. I know in Michigan they use labor companies and you can get a glorified helper or you can get a very competant installer. I like the corn carpet, I am biased I have sold it for 4 years and get great responses on it. I also like stainmaster or weardated yarns better, again I am biased and that is what I am compfortable with. Price is important to us all going with the cheapest guy sometimes means more money down the road. I would give a weird price over that phone as well, think about it you are just calling me asking me weird questions you are just going to get a weird answer. .

    Power stretching is important my carpet cleaning buddy gets 5 dollars a yard to restrech. More power to him he deserves it.

    it sounds like you have a 15*20 that is 300 or 336 sq ft so if its it about 4 sq ft than you could be 1200-1344 plus tax maybe plus take up moving furniture metals steps yadda yadda.
  3. eyal8r

    eyal8r Active Member

    haha- yeah, trust me, been married 2 years only, but I know enough to let my wife do the picking. She's found both these 2, like them both, likes the look better on the Shaw, but thinks the quality/stain protecting is better on the DuPont. Personally, I'm leaning to the DuPont. It's not THAT much of a price difference, and if it's really that much better quality, then it's worth it.

    I agree- I normally don't go with the CHEAPEST guy in town, but someone in the middle who has strong credentials behind them (credibility, etc etc). I'll DEFINITELY make sure they power stretch or it's a no go. I'll even write it in the order to guarantee. This time, I WILL be there to watch them install ;)

    Since it seems like those of you with input on the quality of each are somewhat biased- is it safe to assume that BOTH carpets are great quality, will handle normal wear/tear w/ a family/dog in the living room, and installed with power stretcher and a good installer? Probably not MUCH difference? Is that safe to assume here?
  4. Jim McClain

    Jim McClain Owner/Founder Administrator

    I apologize for some of the comments you've received, eyal8r. Sometimes pros here get to feeling taken advantage of, or are misunderstood. Occasionally, like in the case of Scott, a wife or girlfriend will be pissed off because they work too much or fish too much and neglect them. When they get handed the pillow and blanket, they come online and find some poor unsuspecting member here to take it out on. I guess it's better than getting in hotter water at home. :hu:

    Sorry. You have tougher skin than most though, so please just let it roll off your back and don't let it get to you.

    There have already been a couple good responses to the question of the carpet qualities you chose. Installation is a different ball of wax. Everyone you talk to will want you to believe they are the best. Have them prove it. Ask for a photo portfolio (a website is great for this), or some references (and you should make the calls, don't just look at the list of names).

    Some people say the best way to choose a contractor is to toss out the highest and the lowest bidders and select from the rest.

    You can analyze this thing to death, if you want. But you have a pretty good handful of information after 41 replies to your thread.

  5. eyal8r

    eyal8r Active Member

    Thanks for the response. Yes, I have had some good replies. I guess I'm confused tho- I haven't had anyone that can objectively compare the differences between each one. Maybe that's what I'm after. Some say that they've never worked with the DuPont stuff, so they're skeptical about it. Others say the opposite. But none has input on both. That's ok, can't expect that. Maybe if you guys could tell me what specifically to look for in a carpet when I'm comparing these two and see if one stands out over the rest?

    Shoot- I have the samples here- maybe I can throw some wine or pizza sauce on them and see how well they clean up? I think for me, the wear/tear on them is more important. My wife- the stains/cleaning of them.
  6. Daris Mulkin

    Daris Mulkin The One and Only Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    For an installer go to, put in your area code and they will bring up the certified installers in a 60 mile radius. Other than that ask you neighbor or relatives who they had and check around on pricing.
    Smart Strand is somewhat green but still depends on oil.
    Sorona is susposed to be green when they switch over to the corn product, but have been told it hasn't happened yet.
    Tuftex nylon- to me nylon is by far the most durable product. But that maybe argued by others. My opinion.

  7. eyal8r

    eyal8r Active Member

    Ahhh ok- so is it bad if they're NOT CFI Certified, but ARE licensed/bonded/insured?
  8. stullis

    stullis Charter Member Senior Member

    LMAO, hire countryflooringdirect.
    What a troll. :yesss:

    Smartstrand is Sorona, it is just Mohawks label for it.

    According to Dupont the 3GT fiber is out performing the nylon in like construction carpets.

    Dupont makes BOTH the yarns that you are comparing. :eek:

    You ain't living there forever so go with the cheapest. And if that was really what you wanted why not just pick out a carpet that comes 15 wide and then you don't have to worry about a seam. :idea:

    PS Never knew a flipper who couldn't make a decision. :eh:
  9. Daris Mulkin

    Daris Mulkin The One and Only Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    No it is not bad if not CFI certified, there are many very good installers that aren't. Being certified is a matter of choice of the installer. He has gone through some ridged testing to get there, especially the higher levels. But there are some advantages, being training, access to a problem solver,etc.

  10. CFI Certified is a way to try and categorize installers talent levels. There are different certifications for levels of difficulty. I have known Great intallers who would not spend the time of day at a CFI Class and I know some hacks that have went to CFI Those people are outliers. on average people who take the time to learn thier trade and go to cfi certification classes such as Darius are probably your most knowlegable installer and most toughtfull.

    It is hard to say Tuftex makes several types of carpet. Sorona makes Sorona yarn. It has been tested in factory test and tests show it outlasts nylon in wear and durability. Nylon has been around for years I think it was installed on the ark. It is my opinion and people who are much more technical than me may dispute this if you are not going to buy a stainmaster or weardated nylon and your concern is children and dogs and value Sorona is the way to go. Stainmaster and weardated may be more money, but I feel they wear better than other nylons.

    You are not comparing apples and apples you are comparing Orange juice to milk are you looking for calcium or vitamin c? Sorona will clean better than nylon. Nylon has a longer track record than sorona.

    I am sorry if that doesnt help, it is the best I can do. When you go to a shop realize they will sell what they sell because that is what they have so they know why their product is better. You are asking about two completely different products. I happen to think the sorona is nice.
  11. eyal8r

    eyal8r Active Member

    Guys, this has been very helpful, so thank you! I didn't know DuPont made both yarns- kinda funny. It sounds like both are good quality products, and will last me the next few years either way. I'll find a good installer (I just checked one out at the ROC, BBB, website, referrals, etc) so I'll probably use them. Again, if this was a flip house- I would've already had it installed. This is my personal residence, where my wife makes the decisions. I just gotta make sure we're not throwing our money away for something that looks good but doesn't last 2 months. ;) If this was our dream home that we'd be living in the next 20+ years and in a different financial situation, we'd be having a COMPLETELY different conversation all together. It sucks, but it is what it is.

    Thanks for all the help!
  12. Peter Kodner

    Peter Kodner Inspector Floors Charter Member Senior Member

    Guys, it is SARONA. If you sell it, you should be able to spell it!

    DuPont does not make all the fiber/yarn used by Tuftex.

    Stainmaster and Wear Dated are branded fiber/yarns systems by different manufacturers.

    Lab tests and real world are far different. Polyester is stain resistant as a characteristic of the polymer(polyester absorbs far less moisture- .04-.08% than nylon - 4-5%). Nylon accomplishes improvement in stain resistance with topical treatments. Nylon is far easier to dye (acid dyes versus disperse dyes for polyester).

    PTT is the polymer used for Sarona and Corterra. Corterra has been a viable carpet fiber for over 10 years. If PTT is the end all, why haven't they captured a significant market share yet? And please, no marketing hype/nonsense about Sarona being a different fiber than Corterra. They are both PTT.

    1-2 years use, go as cheap as you can and you may have some cash to replace it when you put the house on the market.
  13. Pete,

    Just looked at my sample and I sell Sorona. Its a lot softer than that sarona stuff you sell is.
  14. Peter Kodner

    Peter Kodner Inspector Floors Charter Member Senior Member

    Like I said Sorona :shifty::confused::brick::hu:
    Sure glad I'm not selling anymore
    guess it is better to be happy than right...
  15. Ken

    Ken Pro Member

    Home depot in michigan does not hire installers, they contract with installation houses/companies to do the installs for them so you are actually dealing with a 3 parties to get your install done,
    install company a
    and the sub contractor installer.
  16. Peter Kodner

    Peter Kodner Inspector Floors Charter Member Senior Member

    Here the installers are employees of the workroom. Don't know if this is the case outside of the metro though.
  17. eyal8r

    eyal8r Active Member

    Wow- very interesting. So by its nature, the SORONA ;) is technically better at stain resistance over any nylon thread. Is there a way to compare 'wearability' of the two, other than the 4 little footprints on the back of the samples? Or even quality of how the stuff is made? Will the threads pull out easily on either one? I noticed on my sample board, when I rub my hand back and forth on the DuPont stuff, threads come out. Not sure if that's because of it being a SAMPLE board or a sign of bad carpet. It doesn't seem to do that with the Shaw Tuftex sample.

    I found a retailer/installer willing to beat HD's price on it. I've checked him out- ROC has 1 open complaint, BBB has 3 prior complaints- all resolved. He's been in business a long time, has a nice large retail location, website, etc etc. He says they ALWAYS use Power Stretchers. I'm considering using him... your thoughts?
  18. Peter Kodner

    Peter Kodner Inspector Floors Charter Member Senior Member

    You are again misunderstanding the information. Nylon with Stainmaster or Wear Dated treatments are significantly more stain resistant than a nylon with a simple fluorocarbon treatment like Scotchguard or Teflon. Without being too technical, these products seal off the dye sites engineered into the fiber so there basically is no place for new dye (staining agent) to bond ot the fiber.

    Nylon has an affinity for acid, hence the acid base of nylon dyestuffs. Polyester, like polypropylene, has an affinity for oil. Oil based soil is much more difficult to remove form polyester than nylon. Virtually all airborne soil has an oily component that forms a bond, in some cases a very tenacious bond, with polyesters.

    "Wear" has a significantly different meaning to a mill or fiber manufacturer than to a consumer. To a manufacturer, it means resistance to abrasive wear. I am aware of one wear warranty that has ever been honored in the 30+ years they have been in existence.

    To a consumer, appearance retention is usually equated to wear. I do countless inspections for an end user complaint of "Wearing out". If the carpet has an appearance retention warranty, a small percentage are replaced, but the vast majority are not. The replacements I have seen are where the yarn has experienced very severe twist loss. Doesn't make many homeowners happy to learn their carpet is not bullet-proof.

    Whatever you wind up buying, make sure you ask for the warranty info and read it. You will have some responsibilities to keep it in effect.

    The major drawback to polyester has always been a lack of resiliency which is the ability to regain its original orientation after removal of load. In lay terms,it crushes and mats, and is difficult to get the pile restored. After correction of the pile, the condition recurs rapidly. The literature available, from biased sources to this juncture, state Sorona is greatly improved over PET polyester. Abrasion resistance has never been a problem with any of hte big three synthetics (nylon, polypropylene or polyester) but crushing and matting have been. Nylon is measurably better for resiliency but still cannot even approach wool in this department!

    I'm still waiting for more real world experience and independent labs results before I drink the Sorona Kool-Aid... or spill it on my carpet :yesss:
  19. Jim McClain

    Jim McClain Owner/Founder Administrator

    Not to change the subject, but do you happen to mention us here at TFP when you talk to these flooring professionals? We like to attract a large and diverse group of members from every segment and every location.

    Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled discussion. :shifty:
  20. Daris Mulkin

    Daris Mulkin The One and Only Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    Curiousity kind of got me here. I wonder how much this persons house is valued at? And this goes with any other person that is shopping labor. Most houses today are in the 100,000 and up range I would believe. Now why in the world would you hire a cheap installer to put in your carpet, in this case in your investment? Higher priced installers usually have a reason for being higher priced. They may pay more attention to detail, do it by the CRI standards which means powerstretching, seam sealing, and so on. These higher priced installers don't care if you pay $2 a yd. or a $100 a yd. they will give you the same installation. They are usually the installer that is not out running his repair work or trying to stay ahead of it by changing locations every week.. Or maybe they are like me to old with to much time and experience to get excited for the lower pricing.
    Enough of my ranting.
    Like Stullis always says " You get what you pay for!!

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