DuPont SmartStrand Vs. Shaw Tuftex

Discussion in 'Carpet Q&A' started by eyal8r, Nov 18, 2008.

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  1. Tandy Reeves

    Tandy Reeves Resting In Peace Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    OK it is your money and spend it as you wish. Just remember "long after the thrill of the cheap price is gone, the product and bad work lingers on". Were you phone shopping for the prices or did you go into the store. If someone phone shopped me I would always give them a high price because I had no idea who I was dealing with. I figured the price on the figures you gave in your first post and I got $1498.00 plus tax. You can call any price contractor price. Good Luck.:)
  2. eyal8r

    eyal8r Active Member

    oops- I meant they quoted me up to $3300!!!
  3. eyal8r

    eyal8r Active Member

    huh. That's interesting- you'd quote HIGHER over the phone? To me, it's a waste of time walking into a store when I know exactly what I want. I guess what I need to do is tell them straight up what Home Depot is quoting me, and see if they can beat it. Maybe that would help?

    Yes, I have a 10% off discount to Home Depot as well- so that helps...
  4. Jim McClain

    Jim McClain Owner/Founder Administrator

    eyal8r, unfortunately that old adage applies even more to labor than anything else - you get what you pay for. The general retail industry (not just flooring) has done their customers a great disservice by teaching consumers put too high a priority on price. Price shoppers almost never get what they want, except a "better price." I also understand economics, but one should always buy the best they can afford. If you can't afford a quality installation for quality goods, then lower the price of the goods before you lower the price of the labor. An expertly installed lower priced carpet will many times outlast a poorly installed higher priced carpet.

  5. eyal8r

    eyal8r Active Member

    I see your points and agree with you. HOWEVER- it begs the question... why NOT use Home Depot to install the product for the cheapest price? Won't they stand by their installers they hire to do the work properly? Isn't that part of their 'Guarantee'? Or am I mistaken? It's just hard to justify a $1300 price tag for the same product as a $2000 price tag. Keep in mind I am only going to be in this house another 1-2 years. Will it make THAT much difference?
    thanks for all the help guys!
  6. rusty baker

    rusty baker Well-Known Member

    Why not go cheaper if you are only going to live there one or two years. According to the real estate agents that I deal with, nicer carpet will help a house sell , but won't increase the selling price.
  7. Nick Arrera

    Nick Arrera Traitor

    eyal8r i can tell you some horror story's about HD and their installations .. And try to deal with them to have the problem resolved :eh: I guarantee if you are only going to be in the house one or two years , you will be out of the house before then .. I would go with a cheaper priced carpet and good pad .. good pad will make any carpet feel plush under foot ..
  8. eyal8r

    eyal8r Active Member

    Yeah, we're seriously considering going cheaper. BTW- all the installers I called yesterday said they were licensed/bonded/insured and DID use Power Stretchers... I still can't get over their pricing tho. One guy even said he installs for HD all the time- he was $25 over their bid, and can install right away.
  9. stullis

    stullis Charter Member Senior Member

    Install it yourself if you are so worried about the $$. :yesss:

    There is some nice candystripe carpet with pad attached out there for $.50 a foot.
  10. eyal8r

    eyal8r Active Member

    Ummm, no thanks. Installing carpet the right way is much tougher than you would think. It's an artform, and I know enough to know I'm not capable of doing a good job with it. ;) I'm ok with the $1300 price range- I just don't see how these guys can charge upwards of $3300 for the exact same job- it just doesn't make any sense to me. I'm just shocked that they would even try to throw that number out there when they knew I was price shopping- especially in this economy. Oh well- their loss, not mine.

    I still haven't had anyone chime in on the quality of that Shaw/Tuftex carpet yet. Is it good stuff, or not worth the money?
  11. stullis

    stullis Charter Member Senior Member

    The $3300 job would not be the "exact same" as the $1300 job no more than the candy stripe carpet cost the same as the carpets you originally had price quotes on. ;)

    Shaw/Tuftex make good quality stuff and some that isn't as good, all priced differently as well. You will find the same issues with any other carpet manufacturer or most other manufactured goods. Been out shopping for a new TV, car, appliances lately? Quite a different variety eh?

    Same goes with installation labor. ;)
  12. eyal8r

    eyal8r Active Member

    I've rehabbed and flipped over 300+ houses in the past 8 years. Believe me, I know the value of good labor, and know that there's HUGE differences between each. However, you have to expect each decent installer all falls within the same pricing range as the other. They might fluctuate higher/lower somewhat a few hundred bucks, that's normal. Anyways- I'm not paying $3k for a 15'x16' room, that guy just lost my business. I'd like to get back on the original topic of quality of these two carpets.

    I've heard many people rave about this 'Made with Corn' DuPont stuff- haven't heard anything negative about it yet. My wife noticed last night that the Shaw sample would easily put lines in the carpet when she dragged something across it- while the DuPont stuff would not. That's not a plus in my book. HOWEVER- the DuPont Sorona Samples seem to be less dense compared to the Shaw Sample. I can pull the fibers apart and see the plastic backing fairly easily on the DuPont Sorona, and not nearly as easy on the Shaw sample. I've been told that's how you see if it's a decent carpet. But it contradicts what everyone else is telling us about the DuPont stuff being high quality. Any input on this?
  13. Mark in Tulsa

    Mark in Tulsa Pro Member

    The Sorona carpet is a polyester. It is not made of corn as of right now. And probably will never be made of corn due to corn prices going through the roof due to ethanol gas.

    The Shaw is a nylon if I remember correctly. I would go with the Shaw. But what I want to know is what is your price per foot or yard for labor and also what is it for materials.
    Something isn't making sense.
  14. eyal8r

    eyal8r Active Member

    Yeah, I'm not even addressing the $3300 guy. Here's the best price I've received- it was from Home Depot, of all places...

    DuPont Sorona- $3.75/ft
    Shaw Tuftex - $3.65/ft

    8# Rebond pad - $0.58/ft

    Install - $199.

    Figuring about 32 yards total.

    I have a 10% off coupon at Home Depot, so that helps the price as well.

    The only other closest price was $1300 total for the Shaw, installed, complete w/ haul away, power stretchers, etc etc. Comes out to about $25 more or so than Home Depot's quote.
  15. stullis

    stullis Charter Member Senior Member

    Sorry but I have no time for flippers. The primary cause of the economic mess this country is in right now.

    I don't blame you for doing it but I do blame those who allow flippers to prosper like they have.

    And you are right Mark, this person is just flinging numbers around with no intention of really trying to get answers.

    You have already got your answers eyal8r use your brain to figure the rest of it out. It really isn't that difficult. :rolleyes:

    PS 300+ houses and have never seen carpet installed or what a powerstretcher looks like??? lol That is scary! :eek:
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2008
  16. Tandy Reeves

    Tandy Reeves Resting In Peace Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    You are right Scott. This guy has been jerking our chains all along. If you have flipped 300+ houses you know the answers.

    My guess you are a Home Depot employee trying to give them some good press on this site.

    I'm done.
  17. stullis

    stullis Charter Member Senior Member

    "it's about 15'x20' room" or is it " for a 15'x16' room"? Big difference.

    dupont Sorona $3.75/ft = $33.75/yd
    Tuftex $3.65 = $32,85/yd

    pad .58 = $5.22/yd

    $199 install is for a basic install look out for all the extras they charge. Concrete, steps, seams, metals, prep, etc.

    All these extras are at a greatly increased price over what is usually charged around here as are the pad and carpet prices.

    Come back with a written EXACT quote from HD and I'll match them all day everyday even with your 10% discount.

    There, that is exactly what you wanted to hear. ;)

  18. Peter Kodner

    Peter Kodner Inspector Floors Charter Member Senior Member

    Been watching this one.

    You keep referring to DuPont as if it is a carpet mill. It is not, it is a manufacturer of carpet fiber, and a much smaller amount of carpet yarn (they generally ship mostly fiber to mills which then process it into yarn). Shaw is a very large integrated flooring manufacturer with Tuftex being one of their divisions or brand names. Mohawk seems to be by far the largest user and promoter of DuPont Sarona under their brand name of Smartstrand.

    To me the jury is still out on if this fiber is anywhere near an equal to nylon. Bear in mind nylon has been around as a carpet fiber for over 50 years starting with DuPont 501 (God awful stuff too!). Time proven and has had many advancements over the years. Polyesters were first used for carpet in the late 60s/early 70s and was a complete disaster. It has taken many years for this fiber to gain even a small percentage of the carpet fiber business. It is still a pretty distant third to polypropylene. Nylon is somewhere about 2/3 of the fiber market for carpet (i'll admit my data for this is a bit dated and I'm sure the percentages have changed some).

    Corn fiber? Best case scenario to date is less than 1/3 of the fiber is derived from corn. In actuality, somewhere around 20% of the fiber is corn based. It is rather specious to call it "made from corn". Kind of like calling Hi-C fruit juice. Great "Hot Button" marketing, but then again DuPont has been exceptional at that for many, many years (read discussions on nylon type 6 versus type 6,6). Their premium fibers and yarns systems are very good although not proprietary or without equals. For the record, I do not consider Sarona a premium fiber at this point.

    I'm going to stay out of the price discussion as they are many here who know a heck of a lot more about it than I. I will tell you this though: I have a nickname for big orange: Job Security.

    Last, here is a picture of a power stretcher:

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Nov 19, 2008
  19. Jim McClain

    Jim McClain Owner/Founder Administrator

    It's very possible they would rather give a very high price than to say they don't have the time or inclination to bother with price shoppers. It has the result they want - no more calls from the price shopper. :eh:
  20. eyal8r

    eyal8r Active Member

    Whoa whoa whoa. Let's calm down a little here. First off, not that it's anyone's business- but- I don't flip houses anymore. I stopped doing it in 2004. If it makes ANY of you feel better about yourselves, I'm in a HORRIBLE financial crisis right now. I'm barely working, but am making enough to pay the bills (barely). I have a baby who is about to start crawling. We have a carpet that our dog chewed soo far back and exposed the tack strip- it can't be stretched. I'm not about to let my baby girl crawl all over the tack strip- which is why we're looking for carpet. This is for my PERSONAL residence, and only in my living room.

    I'm not jerking anyone's chains here- the BULK of the room measures 15'x16'. There is a 'wing' that flares out on one corner, creating a triangle shape of about 3'x4'. At the widest point, depending on how you measure- if you include the triangle wing, it takes the measurements up to 20' wide. I was HOPING they could do the bulk of the room at 15'x16' (obviously would have to seam it), and then seam that little triangle corner in as well. This longer fiber/shag type carpet SHOULD hide that seam fairly well, at least, I'm guessing. That would cut my costs back a TON instead of buying 20' of carpet across the entire room, for a little 3' area. Make sense?

    And yes, 300+ deals and I've NEVER watched the guys install carpet. Why? I order it, they show up, install, and I inspect when it's done. It was always low cost apartment grade carpet. At the most I've seen them use the knee kicker thing when I was there checking on other work. I'm not a contractor, I don't spend all day at the houses hovering over the subs. Again- not that it's anyone's business. I don't know why some of you are getting soo defensive over this subject. All I'm asking is the quality of carpet and how to find a good installer.

    I've been very thankful and appreciative of everyone's input thus far, and continue to do so. Can we PLEASE get back on the subject of quality carpet/installers?

    I jsut got off the phone with 2 companies I called about the DuPont stuff. One guy was $3.95/ft installed w/ pad, the other was $4.64 installed w/ pad. Those are decent prices I think. My wife and I are still torn between the 2 carpet qualities.
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