Does the 30 day new concrete waiting time apply to concrete patch from sewer repair

Discussion in 'Vinyl Flooring Q&A' started by Kevreh, Jan 2, 2018.

  1. Kevreh

    Kevreh Member

    Mother in law needs a new sewer line. 40 year old slab has been jack hammered up through her laundry room, about 10" wide. Was thinking LVP would be a good fit for her. Do the same wait times apply with jobs like this as complete new slabs? Guessing so. She won't wait a month, much less a week so ceramic tile may be the solution. Floating is no good, to much could go wrong with water spills (washer, water heater, ...).

  2. tsb

    tsb well dressed

    You could use a fast cure hydraulic cement like rapid set cement all. Coatings can be installed after 16 hours. It's $$$ though.
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  3. Incognito

    Incognito No more Mr. Nice Guy! I Support TFP Senior Member

    I'm familiar with the Rapid Set materials. I don't know specifically what flooring manufacturers require in respect to their drying times but the claims on the bag are that they "dry" or "set" in a matter of hours. Rapid set has a lot of different types of fast setting products. Perhaps you can call their tech department for specifics.

    I've prepped and laid over zillions of these patch jobs on commercial sites with VCT, LVT, glue down carpet, carpet tile and other floorings that are less sensitive to moisture than wood, linoleum, rubber, cork and such.
  4. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    Agreed, I see it occur all the time and use to be concerned about it when installing. I’d say it may not have been doweled to prevent fill from sinking.

    It’s treated as cracks, so a crack suppression membrane would be needed for porcelain.

    Also moisture vapor barrier has been compromised, so moisture sensitive flooring may be an issue.

    I’d like for concrete repair to be done with rapid cure, but I’m not “in charge”

    We did this gluedown vinyl plank going on two years without an issue. Two years is squat!

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  5. Kevreh

    Kevreh Member

    mr incognito, you left me hanging. Are you saying you've layed down lvt over new patch jobs, within a few days, with no issues?

    Also theres a gas water heater and furnace. Are some or all glues flammable.

  6. Kevreh

    Kevreh Member

    Also, would a roll on moisture barrier, like redguard, typically used in showers, be a good idea to prevent moisture and potential ph (?) problems?
  7. tsb

    tsb well dressed

    One issue with fast cure cement is it sets up FAST. as a DIY full depth patch it may be tricky to get it smooth and level with existing concrete for a LVP install without coming back and grinding it flush.
  8. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    I’d suppose it’s better to go low than high and patch if necessary, I think when we have our grinding equipment onsite and “cleaning” the slab I’d rather dial it down by grinding”slightly” higher trench than filling. Then a nice little feather finish skimcoat if needed.
  9. kwfloors

    kwfloors Fuzz on the brain Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    Never have used redguard as a prime before covering it up with LVT. Might be an overkill. I have done several rooms with polyphatic coatings for an impervious flooring.

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  10. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    I don’t think Redgard has been approved for under LVT, just porcelain/ceramic/stone as far as I know. Maybe too soft.
  11. Incognito

    Incognito No more Mr. Nice Guy! I Support TFP Senior Member

    That's not a product used for resilient flooring. The moisture barrier needs to be incorporated/secured in any concrete trenching/patch system otherwise the slab is compromised and subject to flooring failures.
  12. Incognito

    Incognito No more Mr. Nice Guy! I Support TFP Senior Member

    None of the modern flooring adhesives used on LVT/LVP are flammable.

    Yes, many, many times OTHERS have scabbed in concrete patches with God-only-knows-what kind of "fast setting" concrete on construction remodel projects of all sorts. With porous materials like VCT, glue down carpet, some carpet tiles and others it's less troublesome should there be residual moisture or moisture vapor emissions from the dirt below the slab.

    With LVT we would just inform the GC/customer that we cant be held responsible for issues related to the patch. They ALWAYS say it's 100% ideal.......totally dry.........totally secure, blah, blah, blah.....just do it. The risk of failure is on them as generally only that patched area would be affected and we could easily remove and replace that section of tile/plank at their expense. So we don't sweat the small stuff.

    On large scale sheet vinyl, rubber, engineered wood, laminate or other material that ABSOLUTELY fail under suboptimum conditions we will not casually prep and install over "green" concrete. We would start an Email war with photos and documentation, testing and such. The key is that the customer has to be fully competent and responsible top assume liability. That's kind of a BS game that only industry experts and insiders know how to win.

    Long story short-------use the Rapid Set.
  13. Kevreh

    Kevreh Member

    Is LVT and LVP ok because it has seams and can let curing concrete breath? Whereas vinyl sheet and others you mentioned don’t?
  14. Mark Brown

    Mark Brown On The Surface Flooring I Support TFP

    None of us will GUARANTEE that you wont have a problem with laying over it, however i bet there isn't a one of us that wouldn't inform you it MIGHT be a problem and then proceed to go right over that trench.
    Get yourself a good quality adhesive and go to town. Give it as much time as you can and away you go. Im with Incog, i cannot count the times i have laid over a trench 2-3 days after the plumber is walking out the door. Infact i can probably use two hands to count the times the door i walked in hit him in the ass on the way out :p
  15. Kevreh

    Kevreh Member

    Cool, got it. Not looking for guarantee's, just what is reasonably possible given a non-ideal situation.

    Appreciate the feedback everyone. :D
  16. Incognito

    Incognito No more Mr. Nice Guy! I Support TFP Senior Member

    Not so far as being ok because it has seams that allow some moisture to pass. LVT is nonporous so there's going to be ZERO moisture passing through the tile THEREFORE moisture and alkaline salts will collect at the seams.

    But since an installer who did not do the patch and does not know what the moisture vapor emissions of the slab is or the alkalinity levels we generally feel that any reasonable person who DIRECTED us to install over that patch would assume responsibility. It's not my house/building so I'm not there to dictate that you do everything 100% by the book. If the slab is problematic and the patch is done with crappy materials and sloppy workmanship those are not things I can control or even know about after the fact.

    Replacing glue down planks is a fairly simple process. So it's really that the risk of ME having to fix you floor for free is near zero. They do fail but it would take longer than our standard one year warranty for installation and even if the failure came sooner I expect anyone with a shred of integrity would agree to compensate the installer for the expense of repairs.

    Most people are honest and reasonable and we have to operate the business on that premise or nothing would ever get done.
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