Commercial Carpet Installation with Bow & Skew

Discussion in 'Industry News, Training & Organizations' started by Jim McClain, Feb 22, 2009.

  1. Jim McClain

    Jim McClain TFP Owner/Founder Administrator

    Robert Akin wanted me to post a link to what he describes as a "really good installation video."
    [excerpt=Rob]I found this great installation video on the Shaw Patcraft website... The first part is so-so but the last part shows how to work a pattern match problem.[/excerpt]
    The video is almost 15 minutes. It also shows excellent examples of how the tools currently available in these eBay auctions are used:

    Here's the video: Commercial Carpet Installation | The New Patcraft & Designweave Don't be alarmed, it does begin with a moisture emission testing procedure, but soon goes into seam cutting and how to fix bow and skew.

    Thanks, Rob.

  2. Peter Kodner

    Peter Kodner Inspector Floors Charter Member Senior Member

    Still downloading the whole video but the first section on moisture testing may get a lot of folks in deep doo-doo if they do it as shown.

    Anyone want to chime in on the deviations from protocol?

    I'm actually a bit shocked Shaw would put this out there- I have seen both sides (as a customer and employee) of their legal eagles and these guys are totally anal retentive!
  3. Jim McClain

    Jim McClain TFP Owner/Founder Administrator

    You should be able to view it on their site without downloading it. I know it has to download to your browser's cache, but it's a streaming video, which means it starts playing before it's through downloading. :hu:
  4. Demonseed

    Demonseed Pro Member

    That is a great video, pretty much how we do things, but I like the starting wall tip. The air movers are a must on patterened cross seams. We use them depending on the adhesive and the material, but it makes a world of difference. I agree with them, try to avoid stay tacks at all costs. The deadman, 2 power stretchers and 2 mini's can usually do the job. I disagree on the commercial cut pile, I would row cut both sides (if possible) but that is neither here nor there. The tape works wonders on pattern alignment.

    One side note, they did not address, you can go by the pattern elongation and skew, without following roll sequence, if you you find by measuring the cuts you are closer to tolerance. We will do the tape trick, and measure of the sheets, and try to find the breadths that are closest together pattern wise, when the sequential method does not work. ( That one actually came from the Mill).

  5. Elmer Fudd

    Elmer Fudd Administwative Asst. Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    Actually Chris and I have met both the guys working in the video. They are instructors in Shaw's travelling install class. I like Peter am surprised that they put this out with out showing that the CC test needs prep work before setting it.
  6. Tandy Reeves

    Tandy Reeves Resting In Peace Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    They ignored ASTM-1869 in several areas. Hopefully they will correct that because in court those tests don't stand a prayer. If you don't start right how are you going to end right? The pH test was not done properly either.
  7. Al Gladden

    Al Gladden stretcherman Charter Member

    the old guy is paul carroll. i met him at a CFI certification a few years back..nice guy and very intelligent installer/trainer.
  8. Elmer Fudd

    Elmer Fudd Administwative Asst. Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    I just pulled the book and the younger one is his son, Gabe.

    Both very knowlegable.
  9. Demonseed

    Demonseed Pro Member

    Why would the installer do any of these tests?

    Don't get me wrong, but if it takes 60-72 hours do to the test, and you have to wait for the results, why is the job being scheduled? All of the testing should be done prior to the installer even showing up to look at the job.

    I know, I know, it is our job to do someone elses job, but I have said this before, If show up and do a moisture test the day of the install, it will take 5 days before i install anything. We have a clause that all testing is done prior to our arrival, does it mean it is tested? What do you think?

    Another thing I noticed about this video, a mill admitted its' carpet can be so messed up, it needed a special video to show how we can fix their product. Why not just spend the money on making the product better? Just a thought.
  10. Peter Kodner

    Peter Kodner Inspector Floors Charter Member Senior Member

    Seed, the 60-72 is the time the dome must be in place. You must grind and let that sit for 24 hours before putting the domes down. He is using a Taylor kit and their directions are pretty clear on that.

    I also would never put the dome down with using a roller or at least a hard flat tool to make sure it is sealed. I always give it a little push to make sure it is sealed and air doesn't leak out.

    The pH test calls for water about the size of a quarter, let is sit for exactly one minute, dip the strip and read it between 5 and 15 seconds after dipping. You also want to be sure the test area is not under (carbonation cap fully intact) or over abraded (carbonation cap gone). Best way to tell is to watch how it absorbs. Stays on top- too little abrasion. Disappears- too much.

    Last, what do you think happens to the CaCl while it is in transit back to Taylor for weighing?
  11. Daris Mulkin

    Daris Mulkin The One and Only Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    Even when Taylor does the numbers for you they send a little letter back saying they don't know if the test was done properly and they aren't reponsible.
    Does Taylor even do the numbers anymore? I think I heard they weren't but not sure.
    Peter, I have not heard the word carbon-cap before, what is it. Man you guys get to techinical for me.

  12. Peter Kodner

    Peter Kodner Inspector Floors Charter Member Senior Member

    I may be misusing terms!

    I have always called a carbonation cap the top 1/16 inch where all the crap rises in the admix :D

    To be accurate, a carbonation cap is where there is an ASR (alkaline-silica reaction) and a calcification cap where there is concrete cancer from water affecting the surface.

    Maybe my bad habit comes form trying to make grinding off sealers, curing compounds and of the deleterious matter doesn't sound as good. My bad for trying to dazzle 'em with words :eek:

    The reality is we need to get "good" concrete without grinding down to the aggregate.
  13. Curt Durand

    Curt Durand Resting In Peace Charter Member I Support TFP Published

    I would never send the tests in for someone else to weigh. A gram scale was inexpensive and I measure each kit immediately before being placed and immediately after the dome is removed. The preweighed amounts never seem to match my actual measured amounts.
  14. Nick Arrera

    Nick Arrera Resting In Peace

    Would that be considered the slurry cap Peter ?
  15. Taurus Flooring

    Taurus Flooring Over 30yrs Experience

    Boy I feel like I'm being bamboozled by the carpet industry once again. They're now giving instruction on how to fix their flawed material, and how much am I being paid to seam the carpet again? I know to install carpets I have to get on my knees, but man I didn't think I also had to bend over. When will this crap stop. :eh:
  16. RFI

    RFI Mr. Nefarious Senior Member

    the narrator in the video comes right out and says that this carpet does not meet shaws tolerences. they are just showing that it can still be done. It is a great learning tool nothing more.

  17. Elmer Fudd

    Elmer Fudd Administwative Asst. Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    For Taurus, If you were to learn from this video or go to their training class you would be able to overcome the issue of bow/skew. And while doing so you could also make a very nice buck at it too.

    Yes the mills will pay to fix it if it is out of tolerance. Document it, call them and find out!!:yesss:

    I know one individual on the boards who makes several K a year doing that!

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