1. Mike Sliwinski

    Mike Sliwinski The Doctor Is In I Support TFP Senior Member

    I have left my CFI renewal dues gone UN-paid for a few reasons, but the one reason I would like to share is all about The Oath. A Solemn Promise to follow industry standards. I remember Jim Walkers words " If Ya don't have a Power
    Stretcher, you can't be certified"

    The problem I'm having is my Sub-contractor doesn't power stretch and as each year goes by, I'm having him install more and more of my apartment units and I feel like a hypocrite. My constant hinting and attempts to persuade him to incorporate this amazing tool have not worked. If I can't hold true to My Oath, then maybe its best if I leave the organization.

    Unfortunately CFI has never taken a strong hold in my area. I have traveled a few times to the NJ chapter in years past, but finding the time and for me the energy is difficult, so I'm kinda stuck with the typical kicker jockeys !

    AND ! I hate to admit it, but my particular kicker jockey's work has remained
    flat over the 2 to 4 year replacement cycle.

    Could it be that my oldness is kicking in ( no pun intended ) and I'm becoming accepting to the UN-relentless Knee Kicking. I just don't see any other way but to accept it and leave the CFI to keep a clear conscience.

    The only real solution I see would be to jump in head first and become a full time Installation Contractor with employees. Then I would have full control of the means and manner in which the work gets done and I'm just not bold enough, organized enough and energetic enough to do so.

    Sorry ! Just had to dump that out onto TFP Family

  2. Elmer Fudd

    Elmer Fudd Administwative Asst. Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    Time to give an ultimatum, powerstretch or the hiway!

    Only you can make such a decision, for us to try to tell you what to do would be pointless. Maybe you could buy him a powerstretcher.
  3. cproader

    cproader All over T's last nerve Senior Member

    :eek:.....thanks fer dumpin on us Miguel......:(
  4. rusty baker

    rusty baker Well-Known Member

    I wouldn't worry about it. You aren't getting complaints. The customer will probably change it in a couple years. I'm sure if it does wrinkle, you will take care of it. This is the real world, not the perfect world that some want to make it. If I didn't have bad knees, I probably would have kicked in some of the apts I installed. I would bet that most of the old CFI members kicked in a lot of carpet when they were younger.
  5. Roland Thompson

    Roland Thompson Charter Member Senior Member

    Ok I will add my two cent's. Mike you are looking at this wrong. The oath you took was for you not someone that does work for you. I have one crew that works for me that powerstretches everything, I have two crew's that has a powerstretcher but always uses the mini stretcher and one crew that I would bet my life on only takes the stretcher in and knee kick's it all.
    My job as a trainer is to see that you or anyone else know's the standard and know's how to use the powerstretcher.
    I tell installer's that the industry states for them to use it, I am not going to stand behind them to see that they do it every time. I also tell them that if they are called for some reason for a restretch they are responsable to take care of it. It sounds to me that you would see that this is done.
    Jim Walker also say's, is this a job you can sell. You see that if for some reason there is a concern it is taken care of, then you should have no guilt sending in your due's and staying active.
    Now to get myself in real trouble, If your jobs stay flat for the long run then who am I to tell you you have to change.
    Now just a note, if and inpector is called in and the standard was not followed the installer showed man up and take care of it.
    Like Rusty said, have I ever kicked in a room? You bet your little self I have.
  6. Daris Mulkin

    Daris Mulkin The One and Only Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    There's probably not more than 1 installer out there that hasn't kicked in a room. It may have been a bathroom but kicked it in. I've done hundreds even though I was taught otherwise. But as we get older we get wiser and start to feel the pain it can cause and it don't go away as fast either.
    Jim also says he has the Gold makes the rules. If that be you make the rules. I'd stay in the organization but that is your personal decision.

  7. Mike Sliwinski

    Mike Sliwinski The Doctor Is In I Support TFP Senior Member

    Thanks Guys, good advise ! I'll read those replies again in the AM with more clarity. Your Great !!

  8. Jon Scanlan

    Jon Scanlan That Kiwi Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    Who does everything by the book?
    We would never do any work if we stuck to the book
    I can think of a lot of things which don't happen
    To me one must have rules, standards and they only come into place if there is a problem and an inspector arrives. Then he can rule it should have been power stretched and not knee kicked
  9. Mike Sliwinski

    Mike Sliwinski The Doctor Is In I Support TFP Senior Member

    I like hearing that statement on a personal level but ! can my executive functions accept that. Once we make that Oath doesn't It become much bigger than ourselves. It may be time for the Ultimatum as Roger has said.
    Now what are the proper words to use to empower that Oath ( the industry standard ) Kinda like parenting --- Boundaries and choices, but this is the business world not day-care, maybe I need to Man up and give it to him straight. ?

    I'll keep you informed

  10. David Hunt

    David Hunt Charter Member Senior Member Published

    Mike, I would avoid the ultimatum because, those convinced against their will are of the same opinion still. Installers should use a power stretcher for their physical well being first. And to better stretch the carpet second. If this knuckle head knows the reasons to power stretch and simply chooses not to, that's his right!

    If you know he's not using a power stretcher and you believe he should and you choose not to avail yourself of his inferior and physically self-destructive services, that's your right.

    If you choose to take an oath to ascribe to a particular standard of excellence, and you know the person you are sending out as your representative willfully and knowingly does not ascribe to this same standard, there is a conflict and either the standard or the representative must go.

    What's the old adage 'a man is only as good as his word'.

  11. Peter Kodner

    Peter Kodner Inspector Floors Charter Member Senior Member

    I can't be quite as diplomatic as the others here :ohno:

    It seems to me this is a case of the tail wagging the dog! As an employer you not only have the right, but a responsibility to set the work practices of your employees and subs. Would we be having this discussion if it pertained to an unsafe work practice that might result in injury or damage to a site? I doubt we would.

    IMHO, you are not receiving what you are paying for, namely installation services to a specific level, in this case the CFI standard. You seem to feel this level of quality is an ethical imperative which speaks well of you.

    Resolving the concern with your sub may be a daunting task to undertake, but as with most unpleasant necessities, it need not be confrontational. A frank discussion of your expectations with the rationale of why you have them may prove to be sufficient to effect the change you want. Reviewing the damage kicking does to an installers adding a comment about your desire to have this sub working for you for many years to come; a discussion about manufacturers requiring stretching; and finish with your own ethical issue from your commitment tot he goals of CFI.
  12. Mike Sliwinski

    Mike Sliwinski The Doctor Is In I Support TFP Senior Member

    Thanks Dobby and Peter,

    So many good points of view by everyone, it's such a Gray area and it's my choice to keep it Gray or change it to black and white.

    I do like the common thought about the Physical damage knee kicking does, it definitely needs to be the priority here and I thank you for making me see that.

    I will discuss my concerns (no Ultimatum) with him and see how it goes, if the knee kicking remains to be the choice, then I'll need to make my Choice. ----Standard stays and installer Goes Or the Installer stays and the Standard goes.

    "A man is only as good as his word" !! --- that really does sum up how I've been feeling.

  13. David Hunt

    David Hunt Charter Member Senior Member Published

    You could take the IFC (Independent Floor Coverer) pledge instead. It goes like this:

    I do promise, to do my best, to imagine house wives being undressed. To chew my Skoal and smoke cigars and push fat retailers in front of cars. To piss and moan when ever I can and to brag to the newbies I'm The Carpet Man! To cut every corner and tack it down, using my nailer, if no ones around. To always stretch my version of the truth, but only if it's bigger than a telephone booth. To please the customer, thats what I'll do and if they ain't happy it, it's because of YOU!. Because one thing people need to understand, I've been doing this for "um-hum" years, I'm the CARPET MAN!!! :mad::mad::mad:

    or maybe not....

  14. Mike Sliwinski

    Mike Sliwinski The Doctor Is In I Support TFP Senior Member

    LMAO, what did you have for dinner, you be funny !! is that a Dobby original ? if so, very creative and witty my friend. :yesss: lmao
  15. Roland Thompson

    Roland Thompson Charter Member Senior Member

    mike, what it come's down to is are you giving your customer your company's best?
    Are you diffrent then the guy down the street?
    I know when I go out I am going to give them my best, does not mean that every job comes out just like I would want it to, but I will keep at it giving my best.
    Good luck on what ever you deside.
  16. stullis

    stullis Charter Member Senior Member

    Your best or just what makes you a profit? :hmmm: :ohno:
  17. Nate Hall

    Nate Hall Types With toes I Support TFP Senior Member Published

    If this guy is on your insurance, you are playing Russian roulette. Its just a matter of time before the old knee gives out. Best that it gives out on someone elses dime! Plus you might gain by word of mouth spreading that "if you want to work for Mr. Sliwinski, you better bring your "A" game! :D
  18. Roland Thompson

    Roland Thompson Charter Member Senior Member

  19. Mike Sliwinski

    Mike Sliwinski The Doctor Is In I Support TFP Senior Member

    I'm still chewing on all those great thoughts, but I just can't seem to get all of those house wives out of my head :eek: :D Thanks for that comedic poetry.

    Mr. Sliwinski ? who's that ? Exactly ! that's what I'm trying to figure out !
  20. Peter Kodner

    Peter Kodner Inspector Floors Charter Member Senior Member

    I can only tell you Mr. Kodner was my father!:yesss:

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