4 Yr's old carpet tile lifting 2 months after carpet cleaning -Why?

Discussion in 'Carpet Sales and Installations' started by Victorious Carpet, Sep 30, 2017.

  1. Victorious Carpet

    Victorious Carpet Carpet Installer

    Hi,
    Need your assistance. This carpet tile was installed 4 years ago -by an unknown to me flooring contractor. Now they ask me to fix it and obviously, they wonder what may have caused this. Apparently, they had changed their carpet cleaning company and they wonder if this has anything to do with it. Some notes from the job site;

    1. Some tiles are still super sticky. I had difficulties lifting them up with tuck knife. Put them back, they stuck again properly.
    2. Some of the tiles are also lifted up in the low traffic area
    3. High traffic areas seems to be in a better shape in general

    Looking forward to your advice and expertise on this matter.

    More pictures and video clips can be seen here;

    [admin removed bad link]

    Thx

    20170930_150144126_iOS.jpg 20170930_145639105_iOS.jpg 20170930_145247788_iOS.jpg 20170930_145239010_iOS.jpg
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 30, 2017
  2. kwfloors

    kwfloors Fuzz on the brain Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    Looks like it grew. Is it dry?
     
  3. Victorious Carpet

    Victorious Carpet Carpet Installer

    Yes, it is dry and cleaned by a professional carpet cleaning company that I know for years. They do exclusively commercial carpeting.
     
  4. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    Is the date stamp 2001? I don't think it's cleaning issue. The traffic areas of course stay down better due to force applied to pressure sensitive adhesive.
     
  5. Jim McClain

    Jim McClain Owner/Founder Administrator

    I removed your link. It was broken (lead only to a blank page for me) and the address looked fishy to me. If you used a link shortener, don't, that's not allowed here.
     
  6. Victorious Carpet

    Victorious Carpet Carpet Installer

    Could be one of these the reason?
    1. Inadequate amount of pressure sensitive adhesive?
    2. A chemical reaction with the old regular carpet adhesive?
     
  7. Victorious Carpet

    Victorious Carpet Carpet Installer

    Thank you for notifying me. Greatly appriciated.
    This is a OneDrive link, hosted by Microsoft OneDrive (hotmail.com)
    Pictures are heavy... Nothing fishy, I'll ensure you. And I have not used a link shortener, that is the actual link (please see the"s" at the end of the http that certifies the link to be secure certified (SSL)
    Please copy paste and give few second, here is the link again.
    Carpet Tile Problem
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2017
  8. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    Hard to not put enough adhesive for pressure sensitive, possible, but it goes on so thin.

    The reaction could be a possibility, the growth for it to pop up is so minimal. The backing doesn't compress, therefor upward it goes.
     
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  9. Chris 45

    Chris 45 Director of P.R. on some deserted island. I Support TFP

    What is the new cleaning company doing differently than the old one? I'm thinking adhesive is breaking down or reacting to something.
     
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  10. kwfloors

    kwfloors Fuzz on the brain Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    I think the adhesive might be a bit tired being 16 years old. No big deal, take up some tiles and spread some more adhesive.
     
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  11. Incognito

    Incognito No more Mr. Nice Guy! I Support TFP Senior Member

    I've seen TONS of curled carpet tiles over the years. Usually it's what I would consider defective material that MIGHT have perfomed correctly had the material been installed 100% to factory specs. It just shouldn't curl if it were "dimensionally stable" to begin with--------but that's my opinion. The cleaning may have broken down some of the weak bond they got by skimping on the adhesive and now with humidity and temperature change you're seeing expansion that causes curling.

    Some of these types of carpet tiles are calling for a NOTCHED TROWEL and what I consider sloppy, huge notches for installing carpet tile. Those systems also call for "tacky" (not completely skinned over open time/working time AND immediataly rolling with a 100 lbs roller. People don't read instructions, for example that old adhesive ought to have been removed or covered. When there's a reaction between existing glue and new glue it's usually an oozy mess. In some cases the existing glue is a crystallized (dried out) multi-purpose that will suck all the moisture out of the pressure sensitive adhesive therefore requiring much more glue that spray, paint roller or carpet trowel application.

    Those tiles could be picked up, back rolled to remove the curl and re-installed properly. I've done this on a VERY large scale (many 1000's of s/y) and a few times on a smaller scale (a few hundred).

    Sometimes after a cleaning carpet just swells up from the moisture and will eventually dry out and shrink back. Sometimes that's not going to happen because its the backing that's swollen.
     
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  12. Incognito

    Incognito No more Mr. Nice Guy! I Support TFP Senior Member

    He said 4 years ago the carpet was installed. If in fact it's a 16 year old carpet tile install I'd tend to agree that's a strong consideration.
     
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  13. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    No picture of the substrate/adhesive doesn't help. I doubted it was cleaning chemicals, but what's the ph of the cleaners? Could it soften/swell the backing? I really don't trust not removing previous adhesive unless someone else is accepting responsibility.
     
  14. kwfloors

    kwfloors Fuzz on the brain Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    You get that adhesive wet every time you clean it and it will eventually not stick.
     
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  15. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    I didn't think the steam cleaning/chemicals penetrated the solid rubber backing but maybe the joints.
     
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  16. Victorious Carpet

    Victorious Carpet Carpet Installer

    Not sure... But he does pretty much all the offices in that building. Let me check into it more.
     
  17. Victorious Carpet

    Victorious Carpet Carpet Installer

    Here are some more pictures and a video clip. => Carpet Tile Problem
     
  18. Mike Antonetti

    Mike Antonetti I Support TFP Senior Member

    The video helped a lot. You putting your hand on the adhesive residue helped but I didn't get to feel the texture of the ridges of prior adhesive or the tackiness of the pressure sensitive. It did seem stickier toward the edge and that drywall blob sounded stuck.

    We did an estimate at a church recently where the remodel was going to be from roll carpet to carpet tile. At .50 cent a foot for adhesive removal, scratch slab, not grind surface they declined and decided to go with roll carpet. I did a test spot of removal as they decided us to do a tile grind for 500$ for 1-1/2 hours to receive lvp. Not sure who was removing rest of adhesive in the rest of room to receive lvp.

    They say there's a primer that you can use over the roll carpet adhesive to bridge the different adhesives. I prefer to remove residual adhesive so the backing has significant contact with ps adhesive, and more in contact with slab.
     

    Attached Files:

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  19. kwfloors

    kwfloors Fuzz on the brain Charter Member I Support TFP Senior Member

    That primer for over old adhesive is great. I've used it several times and it works.
     
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  20. Victorious Carpet

    Victorious Carpet Carpet Installer

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